Training Session with My Dad

By moc.liamtoh@skcashguh

Published on Aug 27, 2023

Gay

This scenario is based upon my true life experiences and is told for the personal pleasure of similarly inclined adults. Be fore warned, it covers W/S, `teen sex--not incest--,scat, fisting, etc.

IT IS NOT INTENDED FOR ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 18.

It is also not to be copied or duplicated for distribution to others. Author: Hugh Sacks. hughsacks@hotmail.com

Training Session 15 Snake Pit: The conclusion

While it seemed like all we did was fuck around, there was plenty of time to relax, enjoy the recent activities and reminisce about past successes and failures.

You could wonder around, day or night and see guys fuckin' around. After a few days all our bodies smelled like out houses because they were covered in sweat, piss or shit and many with a combination of it all, like dad's and mine. Guys would be ling about, watching one of the videos, downing a beer or two, just playing with one another or leaning over a sofa so another guy or two could shove a cock up their ass. I think because Kevin and I were the newest, youngest members, we got most of the attention and we liked that.

Personal preferences and considerations were acknowledged and no one was offended if they were `not-your-type or preference. The ones, who weren't interested in eating shit, simply didn't and no one thought less OR more of them. I, like my dad, wanted it all and we were both more than satisfied, yet I know that we did not have sexual contact with every single member. These trips were at least twice a year and dad would be so fulfilled that he was good-to-go for another six months which is why mom was so enthusiastic about his attending. She did have reservations about his taking me and that was why he had to wait until I was old enough to be on my own and make such decisions.

I was to the level of involvement that nothing would shock me. A lot of what I experienced and saw inspired me to go on to greater heights, like seeing Cookie (John our chief cook and bottle washer) and Scatty (An actual British name meaning eccentric, without serious thoughts) ling under rim seats eagerly accepting anything and all a guy could produce. This usually occurred early in the morning, after the previous days food spent the night, curing in someone's bowels or later in the afternoon when lighter food, like breakfast passed through. That was usually thinner, softer. I was simply amazed at the quantity these two men, all-be-it, the more perverted of them could consume, day after day.

My scat training with dad would be once a month at the most. I'd been able to nibble and swallow small amount of dad's crap but seeing such consumption as this, really set my mind on a higher standard of consumption, especially from Darrell and Kevin who were willing to deliver but had NO interest in eating it themselves.

As Scatty got out from under a rim seat, I scooted in to replace him. The seat was now empty but Scatty had some special sense about knowing what I wanted and guessed correctly by suggesting to Kevin that I wanted to taste, eat, his shit.

He stood over me, flexing his humongous black cock and before I realized what he was doing he had a wide, golden stream of warm piss making its way to my face. I quickly opened up and swallowed everything he had to offer---and it was a LOT! As I was swallowing the last of his piss, I put my hand on the toilet seat, motioning him to sit down. He did, knowing what I was after and considering that he wasn't really into this, he still knew exactly how to deliver; slowly and in short spurts, giving the receiver a chance to get to it and to play with it in their mouth, before swallowing it.

It tasted every bit as delicious as dad's but it was thinner in diameter and easier to swallow. I was comfortable with the first two pieces but then I choked up and afraid I'd not be able to achieve any of my new standards of excellence. That's when Scotty dropped down, placing his head right next to mine to coach me.

"As new to this as you are, you're thinking of it as shit and your whole life you've heard of it as a bad or disgusting word. You've got to trick your mind by thinking of this as something else----brownies, chocolate covered bananas or close your eyes and imagine the texture and smell of skinned Italian sausage and that you haven't eaten in days and are starved.

"OK, Kevin, we're ready for more," and he deliver-ed a 4 incher.

While it still stuck outta my mouth, I was able to apply what I'd just heard and sure enough I was able to chomp it down and swallow it. I was even bold enough to pat his thigh, signaling for more.

More came than I'd anticipated and Scotty simply retrieved it from my face and sucked it down like a chocolate covered banana. That was all Scotty had but before he could get off, I raised my head and strongly sucked, kissed, his ass: OH that heavenly sweet, soft, black ass. How I loved it !

(When we got home, Kevin and I became an inseparable pair because I learned that he liked what I don't really like. I'm into shit; he's not. He's into punishment, spanking; I'm not. It worked both ways. I'd beg him to shit for me and then spank the hell outta him for messing in his pants or I'd tan his hide until he was raw enough that the only thing that would cool him down was my moist tongue on his shit hole. We were both happy.)

++

Meals were a big thing, especially since they were going to be used to feed some of the guys a second time around. Mostly pastas and solid veggies; no seeds, skins, or fats and certainly no asparagus. Cookie was in charge of all that and he really knew what he was doing. Next in line was the creativity of my dad. He told Cookie how good I was at baking and the three of us came up with a couple of surprises for the guys.

Our very thick, dry, meat load not only had bits of Italian sausage but also a quarter cup of the most solid shit he could find around the lodge. And my brownies became their favorite dessert, even to those who did not get into the consummation of another man's waste. They became so preferred that I made a double batch every other day. They also contained a full cup of shit, chocolate chips and bittersweet chocolate shavings mixed with the dried shit chips the guys could peal from their bodies as the toppings for the brownies. The word got around that my secret ingredient was cum, but whose was it. Guys would be passing by as I mixed it all up and I'd ask the stud to `SHOOT A LOAD FOR ME" and he'd immediately get it up and in a few strokes shoot his morning's load of cum into the mixture. Done deal; into the oven for 20 minutes and Walla, custom brownies.

There were the regular meals of breakfast, lunch and dinner with breakfast being the most irregular since some guys took to sleeping in after a long night of intense action. Pisorange juice was a breakfast stand by. By lunch time most of the guys were ready to eat. PBJ on rye break were the standard with the one exception that occurred toward the end of the week. Cookie dumped a huge amount of fairly soft shit in a bowl and sat down at the long wooden table. He held a large slice of bread in the palm of his hand and spread this slightly soft shit over it as though it was peanut butter; plopped another slice on top of it and just consumed it as thought it WERE such a sandwich. For those of you who are squeamish or a novice at this, I found it to be an excellent way to fool your mouth and mind. Shit between slices of bread is a very tasty think. `Try it; you'll like it' as Mikey says in the commercial.

.

It may sound like all we ate was shit but this wasn't so. We had lots of well done meat and solids and of course dessert at every meal. Dinners were another thing. A couple of the men felt they had to prim their stomachs for the onslaught of the evening and consumed shit, usually their own, in a `normal' manner.

While I was eating my macaroni and cheese with a side of sausage, Scatty, sitting across from me, had a 6 inch long rod of shit next to his macaroni and was slicing it with a knife and eating it with a fork as nonchalantly as I was eating my sausage.

This was all building up to the high light or conclusion of our trip to the lodge: The fulfillment of our wildest dreams, the extremes of our perverted ness...that of scat consumption and fisting.

Of the 12 members only half were into that degree of participation and some only to the extent of being tops. For what ever reason, those with the most to offer, Darrell and Kevin, were not into heavy shit but fisting was another thing. They might help out by contributing endless amounts of piss and shit but they had no interest in playing with or consuming it and that was fine with the rest of us. NO ONE was forced to participate in anything they did not want to do.

For years the guys put up with the hard concrete floor as their play ground. It was easy to clean by hosing it down after a messy party but it sure wasn't that comfortable to lie down on. Then Rock came across a foam mattress resource that had the beginnings of a foam run that was to hard and inconsistent to be used for manufacturing retail mattress' and he was able to get it for the effort of hauling it away. It was taken to a vinyl fabric laminating resource and was covered in a seamless top and bottom plastic cover. The only problem was that it was hell to transport and to get into the play area. It took six guys to move it and they had to take down and widen two doors just to get it in. They were now much more comfortable lying around on it. As messy as it got, it too could be hosed down after every session.

One night after a raunchy meal, we were all just relaxing, hanging out, watching the video of the previous activities. There were howls of laughter at some of the antics along with cheers of appreciation at other accomplishments. As always there was cuddling and groping by all on the mattress. Scatty's fingers were probing Cookie's ass for dessert and he was successful. He was sharing his find with others and shortly others were digging shit from other asses and comparing the taste and consistency. Some liked it rock hard; others very soft. Personally I prefer it solidly in the middle, like bratwurst or hot dogs.

As usual things progressed until all their bodies were smeared with shit and as Darrell and Kevin past by the mattress, they just casually, without a word of request or approval, began to piss all over us. I'd thought someone would reach for the source, to drink their golden liquor but none did. They preferred having it contribute to the messiness of the scene. It was now easier to scoot, swish around, in the shit that was there. Scatty and Cookie stood up, bent over and just delivered everything they'd eaten in the past two days. Again, no one attacked the source. They just enjoyed being shit upon and began to smear it all over their bodies. Once they'd covered all the areas they could reach, they worked on the clean areas of other guys bodies. Soon all six bodies was covered, head to toe, in rich, dark brown shit.

They were all slippin' and slidin' over one another, groping cocks and balls, tits and cheeks, mouths and assholes, licking it, smearing it and even eating it. We were like a pit of snakes, all interlocked. Ya couldn't' tell which arm belonged to which body. It was wonderful. As much as I enjoyed sliding around on dad's shit covered body, this was much better `cause there was so much more of it.

The routine became faster and faster and when the slipping caused the shit to get thinner and thinner the guys who could, just let it go and more shit and piss was contributed to the scene. I particularly like the part when three of them were just laying on their backs, pissin' straight up into the air to see who's would go the highest. As it came down it splashed and rick--o- shade all over our bodies.

I couldn't get enough of it. I just loved cleaning up my dad's hairy torso when we smeared shit all over our bodies but this was even more fun because there was an endless supply of shit covered bodies to be cleaned up. I got so deeply into it that I had no idea whose body I was working on. First there were cocks and balls, large and small, that needed my expert attention, then onto the chest and nipples and then the most remarkable area arm pits.

Try this: Shit a handful of `play dough' into your hand and then smear it into an arm pit and then close down the arm and have a guy try to dig, suck, it out. It's a lot like having an ass over your face, trying to probe through the cheeks to get to the ass-hole paradise.

After cleaning up larger, grape size nipples, I headed for an arm pit and though there was resistance, I was able to probe my way into that hairy, grossly smelling, pit and chomp away at the goodies that had been compacted there. When my face, tongue and teeth were doing their job, the guy brought his arm back down around my head and put me into a strangle hold. It was the highlight of the evening and while I was consuming his glorious shit, I was also being smothered. I didn't care. If this was the way I was to go, it would be fine with me...smothered To death in shit !

Of course that didn't or wouldn't happen with these guys. I was released to continue my trek across his body. But as I considered which area to attack next I was aware of all the hands and tongues that were over my young body. It felt strangely wonderful, being eaten by creepy, crawly, creatures. There must have been five guys attacking various parts of my shaking body and while I wanted to just lay back and let them have their go at it, I was afraid they'd beat me to my own destination. I wanted the face and mouth of gorgeous, young, Scatty. When I got there he'd just finished smearing great quantities of shit all over his face and I could not resist the temptation to rub my face against his, spreading more crap around my face. It was thus easy to attach our mouths together and I began to suck in his tongue. It was hard to tell which was my saliva and which was the slippery, slimy mess that was all over us. I'm not the most passionate kisser as my experience and affection toward my dad is in the range of physical admiration and not romantic attraction but this guy was good. He held my head in his hands and ate my mouth as though he was sucking or squeezing a melon. Our tongues were sword fighting each other. In all I was completely captivated by his control of me. I wanted this to last a long time, and it did.

His sucking power was much better than mine and as I retrieved my tongue, so I could swallow, he was able to suck back everything in my mouth, shit, piss, spit, slime; everything left my body and filled his. Once he'd tasted it, he went back for more and more but there simply wasn't anything left, I felt completely drained.

When he wasn't successful in that, he, still holding my head in his hands and squeezing it harder, put his mouth directly over mine and then flipped me over on my back and just let gravity draw it all back, filling my mouth to over flowing. I had all I could do to swallow and not spill this precious nectar.

He continued his control over me by eating the rest of the shit that had been smeared there. While he was swallowing that, he licked my eyes with his course tongue and that was an effect that had never happened to me and I was transfixed. Could it ever get any better than this? I moaned and he hummed both expressing the wonder and pleasures we were sharing. He made me feel like I was his favorite ice cream cone----chocolate, of course!

I felt like a little kid, having his face licked by an exuberant puppy and I wanted to giggle with delight. It was a totally new sensation for me.

While I was reveling in that sensation, he turned me sideways and began to lick and suck shit from my ear. Not only was the shit dissappearing, the sound of a tongue rubbing on my hearing channel and the vibration that it sent through the rest of my body almost made me pass out. But I didn't and wouldn't `cause I was anxious to have him do that to my other ear. In the split second it took me to turn my head, I could feel all the other guys working on other parts of my body. I felt like a royal piece of shit that all the flies in the kingdom had swarmed to feast upon.

While I'm not at all interested in feet, the sensation of my toes being separated by a moist tongue while being sucked clean was an experience I'll never forget. I'd offer my feet to anyone who could reproduce that feeling.

While all this was going on I felt obligated to reciprocate in some way, so I reached for Scatty's tits and began to pull down on them. At first there was no holding power with all the slime that was on them but after a few pulls and twists I regained control and was able to let them snap through my fingers. I then reached for his cock and balls thinking I'd twist and pull on them but his cock was as hard as granite. When he realized what I was after, he slid my ass over him, while still sucking my ear, and was able to posit-ion his fuck rod at the entrance of my ass. Within a jab or two, he was buried inside my shit shoot with his balls smacking against my balls. He was successfully sucking my ear and fucking my ass!

His fucking picked up in intensity and both our bodies were bouncing like beach balls on the play area mattress. It affected the other guys and dad began to clap and chant, fuck him, Fuck im. FUCK HIM ! ! ! ! harder Harder HARDER FUCK him HARDER!

This felt as good as the solo match when I was pullin' the train. We'd both lost interest in eating and wanted to concentrate on this fucking act. It didn't last as long as I'd wanted it to because while he was still penetrating full length, he began to piss. I've never been able to do that: piss though a hard on, while jackin' it off, but he could and did. It was almost as long a piss as it was a fuck and while I'd rather have had the cum, I felt good being this bloated with hot urine. His cock was so thick and my Ass so tight that none of it escaped.

He finally withdrew and brought his granite cock to my mouth so I could enjoy the heat and smell of it all, the other two guys working on that end of my body slid up to lick my ass and I just let it go. A torrent of slimy shit and raunchy piss blasted both their faces and there was another round of applause `cause this was totally unexpected but eagerly accepted. With that much more slime on all our bodies we, again, began to slip and slide all over each other. We did it for a very long time and I loved it. We all LOVED it. When this happened in a training session with dad, it could only last a few minutes as it all dissipated quickly; this seemed to be able to go on all night and as much as I wanted it to, we did actually get tired and one by one, we just stopped and laid there inter-twined in a pool of shit, piss and cum. I was breathing heavily as I'm sure others were. They'd anticipated this for a whole year and were gonna be sure to make the best of it.

Darrell and Kevin had started a huge fire while this was going on. It's funny that while it's warm enough to run around naked, inside and out, during the day, at night it sure did help to cuddle around a small fire. It also looked very romantic as the electric light level was always low and the flicker of the fire made our bodies look so inviting. Those closest to the hearth got the full benefit of its warmth and within an hour all their slime and shit was dried on their bodies. That didn't mean much to me except it was gonna be hell washing it off in the morning. I scooted closer to the fire for warmth and I wanted to get to where Kevin was sitting on the edge of the mattress. Even though I was covered in shit, when I got there he eagerly allowed me to cuddle next to him and he idly ran his fingers up and down my back, sending waves of sexual energy through my limp body. Within a half hour, it was all dried and I felt completely warm and comfortable with my arm around his waist and my head resting in his lap using his cock and balls as a pillow.

Something very special was happening to us.

Someone had turned on the video and again we just laid there watching everything we'd been doing. When it showed Scatty licking my eyes and ears, a chill of excitement went though my whole body for the second time.

A couple of the guys did drop off to sleep but dad, Darrell and Kevin and I sat around the edge of the mattress and began to pick dried, warm pieces of shit from all our bodies. They began to eat it as though they were M & M's or chocolate chips. Before I could retrieve any, Darrell dropped some into by gaping, squawking, mouth. It was as though I was a little bird and was being fed by adult birds. Cookie was there collecting the morsels as fast as he could before they'd all been eaten. He used them in his cooking here and at home.

Darrell threw another log on the fire to keep it going through the night. He knew the routine: after such an exhilarating evening the guys just passed out right where they were and would sleep `n snore till late in the morning. While such shit was not for everyone, they were not apposed to lying with all their buddies whose bodies were covered in dried shit.

I drifted off in the thrill and exhaustion of having experienced things that I could never have imagined. There were `sugar Plumbs of shit dancing in my head.

Dad and I did get our, "Good night son, I love ya's" in.

++

After a full week of fucking around like this and smelling to high heaven `cause we hadn't taken a shower, we were all sleeping in later and later, eating less and less and even fooling around less and less. That surprised me as I thought some of these hunks, studs, were invincible, capable of non-stop cuming, pissing and shitting but they all did finally have their fill and were content to watch the last few acts of perversity.

In watching tapes of the things that had gone on this week, several references were made to `fisting'. I'd gathered from similar comments that dad and Darrell had made, that it had something to do with shoving fists, arms, into men's bodies. I was looking forward to seeing that done but THE surprise was that after they got the leather sling, the one that I'd been in, reinstalled, it was my dad who climbed into it.

My jaw just dropped; I couldn't audibly express my shock and surprise, but there he was, with a beam on this face, saying,

`WATCH THIS!!!!!'

Apparently this was a standard procedure at the Lodge as ALL the men gathered around, either to watch, cheer them on, or be an actual participant. It was Darrell that stood behind dad, smearing Crisco the full length of his arms and then shoving fingers full of it around and into dad's ass hole. Dad was deeply inhaling the aroma from a small bottle of alkyl nitrate known as Quick Silver' or Bolt'; pop'rs to some. It was used to block out pain and tighten your brain, bringing it to the point of fantasy.

Obviously dad knew what was to happen and he'd stretched his hole before hand with the massive dildos that I knew he had. It didn't take long before Darrell's thumb was positioned into the palm of his hand and he began to slowly screw it into dad's awaiting ass. It went in easily. In two shoves his hand disappeared and there was a pause for dad to get used to the intrusion. They were experienced partners and knew just what to do and what not to do.

His hand came out and then immediately was shoved in deeper and deeper and I gasped aloud, realizing how far it was gong into his large body. There was only a foot length left to the end of Darrell's elbow. These were all slow pulls and projections; maybe a dozen of them and the whiteness of the Crisco disappeared. When he'd removed the full length, 24 inches, of his arm, dad's ass hole looked like a huge cherry and cream colored donut.

Dad continued inhaling the pop'rs. Then Darrell repeated the action with his other arm and because it had more lard on it, and dad's hole was now very stretched, it went in easily. He wasn't as dexterous with his left hand as he'd been with his right but it still went in as far. All the guys were commenting on the success of the fisting, encouraging both of them to go further...deeper.

"Ya can do it, man...Take it all. There's only another inch to go..."

I was still in a state of awe but was sure I'd seen it all but then it went to yet another level. Darrell made his hand into a fist and began to shove---no---punch it into dad's awaiting ass. It seemed like he was using dad's ass as a punching bag only it was going into the bag, not bounding off it. First the left fist and then the right; one after another and ya cold hear the popping of swishing as they were pulled out. My head continued to shake from side to side in utter disbelief of what my dad was capable of taking. It was beyond belief!

Darrell was intently watching me as he performed this ritual on my dad. Smiles became grins and grins became the cocking of his head, urging me to come closer and closer. I did.

To my utter amazement he took both my arms and covered them in Crisco and I thought I was going to `allowed' to repeat his actions but he stood behind me, wrapping his slimy arms around me and grabbing my forearms and holding them tightly together, he guided me in shoving them into dad's ass---both at the same time.

I didn't know whether to hold my fingers pointing forward or make a fist. It really didn't matter as his hole was so stretched by then that both my arms just slipped in. In fact it seemed like dad's hole was swallowing my hand. I would have stopped at the wrist but Darrell kept shoving until he was holding my arms by my elbows and applying more pressure that I would ever thought about doing.

I gasped, tilting my head back up to Darrell and then to my dad to see it everything was alright and then as I looked down at his ass, and saw that both of my tender young arms were into his ass, up to my bent elbows! Reliving this at home, I measured that distance and it was 14" !

There were whistles, cheers and shouts of scoring by everyone there. Dad was completely out of it. His eyes were closed and I don't think he even heard the noise. I am sure of one thing: He certainly knew his ass had been split wide open.

As I composting this I can still feel the inside of dad's body. It was all so soft and warm. There was no sense of stretching a plastic tube that might break. There was a feeling of his muscles pulsating, clinging, to my flesh. While I'd never had the need to or the desire to, it felt like I'd put my hands into a washing machine overloaded with silky soft, knotted up sheets.

I was still very conscious of what I was doing as a novice and did not want to go to the next level of using his ass as a punching bag. I was more than satisfied to have been allowed to participate this much. Darrell and I stayed in that penetrating position for several minutes and when he released me, I slowly,...carefully,... let my quivering arms slip from dad's ass. With my eyes fixed on it, his asshole slowly closed, sucking it's roll of outer donut, flesh, back into his body but in doing so, it also seemed to be winking at me, saying good-by and thank you.

++

Without describing the whole act again, later that day it was Darrell's turn to ride the sling and dad did all the fucking and YES, Kevin took my place in fisting his uncle for the first time with the identical feelings and results. In later conversations it came out to both Kevin and me that dad and Darrell had been doing this to each other for years, usually in the shed where there was more space and privacy. My coming into the picture had limited such practices and that's why these trips to the lodge were so important to both of them From now on Kevin and I would be a major part of the action and they'd, we'd, all be able to fulfill our perverted sexual desires. We'd each fisted our dads' privately, about once a month but there were several sessions when they'd gotten into side by side slings (in our garage) and Kevin and I could see each other fisting our dads'. Those were very special times for the four of us.

By the end of the seventh day we'd all had enough and were glad to see it come to a successful conclusion. As is so typical of such an event, it took weeks of planning and preparation to open the lodge but only a few hours to shut it all down.

The task for the day was the cleaning of the equipment and toys with disinfectants and very hot, soapy water and then putting it away, but at least it didn't have to be secretly stored, and with 12 able bodies to do it, the job was completed in a few hours. Lots of debris, food cartons, beer cans (over 200 of them), etc. and the most important thing of all, the 10 or twelve video tapes were tossed in the last burning in the fire place. The final act was the hosing down of the play area and matt. A motel size fire hose was attached to the hot water and as it was sprayed forcefully enough to wash away all that dried shit, it was turned on our bodies to force off the main layer of a weeks collection of piss, cum and shit,... the shit that hadn't been licked off. It wasn't as forceful as the street fire hydrants but it sure was more forceful than the stinging needle sprays of the showers at home. It really hurt but at the same time felt good, refreshing.

I've already said how much I liked showering with my dad when he'd pull me close to him and I could feel his cock against my ass and when he'd reach over my shoulder and lather my groin with rich suds; well the next event was a lot like that. The tub, toilet and sink were removed from one of the bathrooms was converted to a massive shower with water coming down from a dozen nozzles in the ceiling. The guys would lather each others bodies, probing, grabbing what they could and in general just hugging one another. There was no need to fuck or piss. We'd done enough of that all week long. This was more of a thank you squeeze for all that had gone into the week.

I suspect other guys had lathered up as many times as I did so we'd be able to have additional contact with other guys. In all, it was very refreshing BUT the surprising aspect of this very long shower was that we all looked soooo different--not being covered in brown waste---and we all smelled so clean and fresh. The natural scent of a man, a human body, is a wonderful thing.

To get to this level, dad and I went through years of very slow and easy training sessions. They were deliberate and non-threatening so that I could have backed out or stopped them at anytime, but I did soooo enjoy them and felt I'd come a very long way. I had a firmer sexual foundation than any other youth I've ever talked to and I certainly had a better understanding of what life's pleasure were all about. I recommend it to any and all of you for your personal and sexual growth.

"Good night...love ya !!!!!

To be continued, I think.

There are lots of questions about JR and or Kevin and myself. It will take another 15 chapters to cover that period of my life. Suffice it to say that we were in very close contact with JR and his running of the international company. Yes, he did get married but we've spent time alone with him, on his yacht or in his Mediterranean villa at least once a year.

The we I am referring to is Kevin and I. Shortly after we graduated from college (not Harvard) his mother was released from prison and he spent a year or so getting her reestablished in a hair salon and there met a beautiful young lady; they were married but that didn't last long. She couldn't keep up with his sexual passions. Twice a day, seven days a week would wear out the most active whore. I was patient and it paid off. We've been partners for a long time AND we've been able to adopt two teen boys; one from JR's Italy and one from Poland. Both studs.


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